In a change from the regular designer profile included in every issue of mondo*arc, Marco Ludwig (pictured right) paid a visit to Villa Panza to interview Dr. Giuseppe Panza (left), internationally renowned light art collector...

Approaching Villa Panza from the driveway, one is first struck by its long and massive exterior wall; it divides the building from the road. Yet when the visitor leaves the faceless facade behind him, proceeds through the gates and enters the grounds, he senses a dark refuge in the pale expanse. The view - seen from the villa's ample grounds - extends as far as the Alpine foothills, the Monte Rosa and Lake Varese. The horizon is visible all around.

Dr. Panza himself speaks of a "great, green space suspended between heaven and earth", the ideal place to appreciate the light, the endlessly changing colours of the firmament, the setting sun and the star-studded night sky. The visitor's gaze is drawn upwards.

In Biumo, Villa Panza and the surrounding area, Giuseppe Panza (born in 1923) sees the perfect world dreamt of in the writings of the favourite authors of his youth - such as Leopardi, Montale and the English romantics - made real. For his serenely happy youth, when he clearly did not feel the typical urge towards idealistic rebellion, Dr. Panza ultimately has to thank the Marquis Paolo Antonio Menagfolio, the founder of the estate. He bought it in the middle of the 18th century, whereupon he built the villa and had the 3.5 hectare garden landscaped so that it slopes gently, facing the light from the sun, which now streams out over the extensive upland area.

Villa Panza is regarded in Italy as unique, in particular because of the arrangement of the garden on the plateau which rises above the surrounding country and at whose foot the town of Varese lies. Varese - known as the Versailles of Milan - lies in the Pre-Alpine region of Lombardy, about one hour from the northern Italian metropolis. From the Middle Ages to the 17th century it was a prominent commercial centre, being regarded as a favourable geographical location for trading in clothes and fabrics. Later on, Varese was increasingly used as a summer residence by wealthy citizens. It was for this reason that magnificent villas with accompanying parkland began to be built in the 18th century, initially by converting existing houses, which often had to be completely rebuilt - as in the case of the house now known as Villa Panza, which had its origins in a 17th century manor house belonging to a certain Orrigoni family. It only came to be called a villa (Villa Menagfolio) in the 18th century, following thorough conversion and extension of the house and gardens. In 1823 the estate passed to the Litta family, one of Milan's wealthiest and most prominent families. In 1935 the last member of the Litta family died and the estate was acquired by Giuseppe Panza's father, Ernesto Panza. His plan to turn the former summer residence into a permanent family home demanded a complete refurbishment.

After about 60 years of living in that feudal environment, when Panza now looks back on his days as a law student, he speaks almost effusively of "moments of freedom I found to read my favourite poets, under the trees in the garden, the best of my times, when I had the impression of losing myself in the beauties of nature". When he watches the interplay of colours of the setting sun from the Villa on Biumo Hill, he feels nostalgia and melancholy, but also confidence and a sense of expectation ... "the presence of the past with a sweet sadness and a serene faith in the future: a future that goes beyond our imagination and which we are constantly awaiting". Apart from anxieties during the 2nd World War, a general feeling of uncertainty in the post-war period and mourning over the death of his parents, hardly any other experiences cast a shade over happy memories of the life led by the "Panza di Biumos" in their villa. This was also where he married his Varese-born wife, Giovanna Magnifico, who thereafter supported him in his collecting activities. The marriage produced five children, who also had the good fortune to spend their childhood in this place.

It was the year 1958 which really set the future course of the villa, leading to its present function as the place where the Panza Collection is exhibited. As Panza collected more and more works of art, his house in Milan no longer had sufficient space for all the works he had acquired by painters such as Franz Kline, Marc Rothko or Robert Rauschenberg. The growing collection had to branch out, so to speak, and from then on much of it was placed in his villa home, although at first this was hardly accepted, let alone appreciated by visitors. Undeterred by this, Dr.Panza went on adding to his collection of American art in 1956, at a time when the art-loving public in Europe were only hesitantly beginning to recognise New York rather than Paris as the art capital of the world. The Italian collector sensed that a new and different culture, compared with Europe, was emerging here for the first time during a visit to the USA, when he was impressed by the generally positive mentality of Americans ("I was struck by the will to create a better future, by the individual freedom and dignity, by the responsibility individuals felt with respects to their fellows") and also by "their" landscapes: "The deserts of the Far West where time appeared to have been frozen, represented a reality close to the absolute, beyond the future, immersed in light." American art now accounts for three quarters of the Panza Collection.

If Panza di Biumo wanted to show his entire collection, now comprising some 2500 works of art, to the public, no less than 40,000 square metres of floor space would be needed, particularly bearing in mind that the works of the American artists now forming the majority of the collection require a relatively large amount of space. Villa Panza is too small for this purpose, measuring only 5,000 square metres. Therefore, over time, Panza has established links with museums which have an interest in parts of his collection. These include the Los Angeles Museum of Contemporary Art, which has taken over roughly 80 works, and above all the Guggenheim Museum in New York, which has over 650 works originally acquired by Dr. Panza. These include works by "light and space" artists such as James Turrell, Robert Irwin, Eric Orr, Maria Nordman and Dan Flavin. On the other hand, approximately 140 works from the Panza Collection remain at the Villa Menagfolio Litta Panza in Biumo, Varese.

In 1996, by arrangement with his wife and his children, Count Giuseppe Panza made the property over to the FAI, the Fondo per Ambiente Italiano (Italian Environment Trust), to secure the long-term future of the villa and its grounds. Since then, the Trust has taken over all important restoration and conversion works on the villa, to turn it into a museum open to the public.

In this way the Italian Government became richer to the tune of one 18th century historical monument of the Rococo phase. The state had already placed a preservation order on the villa on two previous occasions, once in 1953 and again in 1984, thereby putting a "frame" around Panza's most intensive buying phase. Despite the taste for architectural ornamentation prevalent at the time, the villa has a more sober, austere style; with a nod to the art presented in the building today, one could even call it minimalist. Light floods through into the harmoniously divided rooms. The absence of lavish decoration is apparent, for example, from the fact that the windows are not surrounded by any architectural embellishments, except on the east and west facades.

Parts of the Panza Collection are exhibited in the rooms of the villa, on the ground floor, the first floor and in the former stables and barn next door. The second floor is kept separate from the exhibition and instead contains the private apartments of the donor and his family. Whilst the elongated building, separated from the actual villa only by the driveway, is ideal for works by Light Artists (Flavin, Turrell, Irwin, Nordman etc.), in that it previously contained empty and hence neutral spaces capable of expansion, the works that can be seen in the main building of Villa Panza by monochrome painters (such as David Simpson, Phil Sims, Max Cole or Ford Beckman) present a contrast with the venerable rooms and trappings similarly "loaded" with art history, such as furniture from the 15th to 17th centuries. The contrast is further heightened by "primitive" African sculptures which stand alongside the 20th century art. Yet this was a deliberate choice by Dr. Panza made on aesthetic grounds, as he explains: "It might seem strange to find a relationship between two opposite cultures, but only at first sight. Primitive art is related to nature and its forces. Africans attribute to everything an energy that we are no longer able to perceive. Modern art attempts to make the primordial forces hidden within our being emerge from the subconscious."

What this means in relation to Light Art and what Giuseppe Panza thinks about this large part of this collection becomes clear from the following interview with him. It took place at Villa Panza in December last year...

When did you discover Minimal Art for yourself and what, do you think, is the reason for your reference to that art?
Well, I discovered Minimal Art at the beginning of the sixties and began to collect this kind of art in 1966. The first artist was Dan Flavin. He had an exhibition in the Green Gallery in New York in '63. I knew that gallery because it was a very good one at this time. In Milan, too, there was a gallery called Sperone. It opened a space in the centre of the city and when I saw the exhibition there I was very impressed and decided to buy many works. By this way I began to be involved in Minimal Art. Soon after I collected many works by Robert Morris, Donald Judd, Richard Serra, Bruce Nauman, Robert Mangold, Carl Andre and others. In '68 I began to collect works by Robert Irwin who worked with a stronger relationship to the use of light. In '73 I made a trip to Los Angeles in order to see all those artists working with light. I met Robert Irwin and Jim Turrell and I collected works by Dough Wheeler, Eric Orr and Maria Nordman. All this was a great experience because it was the first time in the history of art that light was the main way to make art. Light became the central point of question. Minimal Art, art made by light was very much related to my feeling, to my way of thinking because this art brings up the importance of perception. As we started to be conscience of something, it was the beginning of human intellectual life, of human feeling. That is the main aspect for understanding this upcoming art. Minimal Art came out of technique, of mathematics. Minimal Art is made with shapes, with a logical development. This relationship between logic and art and the way we think is also a relationship to philosophy because philosophy is developed by a logical process. And art for the first time was a showing of this close relationship between art, thinking, philosophy. Many artists in the past like Pierro della Francesca were close to the philosophy of Plato but in an indirect way. With Minimal Art this became more clear and more direct.

To what extent do you count the light art works of your collection to Minimal Art and what importance do these works have within it?
Light art is very close to Minimal Art because Minimal Art is made with industrial products. That means, the artists don't make the object; the object is made by factory but the artist makes the project as something made through the logical process, not by hand. The artists use the space around their art works. So, there is a relationship to the surrounding, the space, the architecture and the light in order to see the work in a certain way. Light, especially for the Minimal Artists I collected in the last 15 years using mainly colour, is essential. Colour is reflected light. The amount of light can even give different meanings to a work. For example, if there is more light, the work can appear more strong or more aggressive; it is expressing an idea with more evidence. If the light decreases, this kind of aggression disappears, the colour becomes softer.

What is fascinating about the medium 'light' for you?
I'm fascinated by light because it provides new experiences which have been developed mainly in the last 40 years. Before, light was used to see objects more clearly; there has not been a real necessity to use light as an autonomous artistic medium like Dan Flavin and James Turrell who make art only by light. This never happened before in the history of art.

Do you combine light with a symbolic, metaphysical or even religious sense?
Sure. It is difficult to say what is really the nature of light. Scientists don't know that exactly. They are encountered with something contradictory. Light is pure energy but you can't see it and you are able to feel it physically only when it burns on the skin of your body and you feel hot, for example. Light is a wave emitted in the universe by transformation or destruction of a matter. This isn't our habitual experience of matters on the earth. We can not touch the light as we touch common objects. The perception of light brings up the question where it is coming from, what is its origin. This touches aspects out of our knowledge.

Is there any lighting artist who revealed to you an access to that medium in a particular way?
The first one was Dan Flavin, after it was Turrell and the artists working in Los Angeles. Among them, Robert Irwin was very important. There are also all those artists whose subject is colour and whose works I collected during the years.

What unites the art of light and space of Dan Flavin with that of James Turrell, respectively what are obvious differences?
Flavin uses only electrical light emitted by fluorescent tubes. This industrial product is also staged as an object. In the work of Dan Flavin the composition, the shape of the lamps are important but also the filling of the space by light. So, the experience doesn't consist only in the perception of the lamps shape but also in the fact that you are inside a space filled with light. This is very different from regarding something on a surface limited by a frame. Such a direct experience of light and space is not an intellectual understanding of an art work in the traditional sense. Turrell often uses the light from outside, from the sun, thus natural light. When he uses electrical light, it is in a different way. He doesn' t show the source of light. For him the quality of light in itself is important.

You allude to the Roden Crater Project of James Turrell.
Yes, the Roden Crater is a special experience. The first time I saw the Roden Crater was in 1973. My wife and I were on the top of the crater bowl during sunset. The light was so extraordinarily beautiful. In Arizona, the air is dry and clear. From the Crater your sight can reach very far into the space of the landscape. You only see the landscape's vastness which is poor in vegetation, the sky and the pure sunlight. This gives to you a very strong impression. You feel like being out of time because there seems to be no coming and leaving; the natural elements, life seems to stay forever; the desert doesn't change; there is no end. It is like walking through the light. By night you see so many stars; their light is very intense in this area.

Do you know whether Flavin and Turrell have been in contact, whether they had a kind of artistic exchange?
They met but they have not been friends. Flavin was about ten years older than Turrell and he began to work with fluorescent tubes at the beginning of the sixties. Turrell started to work as a lighting-artist at the end of this decade. They belong to other generations and they took rather different artistic evolutions.

My following question touches the problem of how light art can be exhibited authentically at all? Have the light art works been drafted by the respective artists only for the Villa Panza?
We have different situations. Flavin can be shown more easily. Above all, you have to respect the correct arrangement, assembly of the fluorescent tubes. If the empty space is large enough, you can take nearly every space. But it is necessary to have a white box because otherwise you loose the perception of the meaningful light. In case of Turrell there are more complex requirements. If the work is made by light coming from the sky you need an opening to the outside in a direction that corresponds to the movement of the sun, for example. Also, the inside of the space has to be lightened by hidden tubes running around the groundplan of the room in order to have a certain balance between the light from outside coming through the opening of the roof and the light from inside. This mixture controls the perception of the skylight. Turrell's works, for example, are site-specific as far as he has come to the Villa, inspected the space and used the existing one to realise his project. But some of his works could also be presented in any space that meets the spatial requirements demanded by the artist.

Your collection is in a historic villa. So, it obviously refers to different aesthetic ideas, concepts and another language of forms, whether it be pictorial or architectural reality. What do you think are the chances and maybe also risks of such a contrast?
I very much like to use historical buildings to show contemporary art because the confrontation is very important. If you have good contemporary art, it is easy to achieve such a confrontation. It can feature the link existing between different artistic epochs and also mark the respective aesthetic peculiarities. However, when you put contemporary art in an old building, you have to pay attention to what to choose because some art works need different settings and different environments.

At present light is being used more and more to enact public space. From time to time one can get the impression that hardly any building, bridge or other architecture remains unaffected by brightness and colour at night. Is such an inflationary handling not rather detrimental for an intense perceptivity of light?
Well, in some way you're right. When you're in New York, for example, you can see the Empire State Building set in light during nighttime and when you walk down the Times Square, you see coloured light everywhere. Light can be used for all this kind of decoration and amusement. But I believe also that an artist like Dan Flavin can be understood better now because people are accustomed to the handling of light and colour. In any case, I think there will be no confusion between decorative lighting and light art because light is used in a very different way by artists.

So, what do you think is the difference between lighting design and light art?
Lighting design is generally for the purpose of decoration or publicity. This is nice to see but it is not art. Light art goes behind the appearance; it touches questions of our existing like our way to perceive.

Do you believe that light as an artistic means of expression will gain in importance in the future?
I'm convinced that we are just at the beginning of a new artistic experience. When I began to collect that art 40 years ago, I had no idea of what all those artists starting with Flavin would create and that today I am still collecting art works of this kind. The possibilities of light and colour seem to be endless.

Marco Ludwig studied Scenography at the Hochschule fur Gestaltung / Zentrum fur Kunst und Medientechnologie (ZKM) (Centre for Art and Technology of New Media) in Karlsruhe, Germany. His main interest is the subject of light and particularly the works of James Turrell, about which he is preparing a publication (see mondo*arc 20 for his James Turrell article)