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February 2004 - Tony goes head to head with Audrey Saunders, Beverage Director
at the Carlyle Hotel in New York.
Tony: Through your recent visits to England do you think that their are different styles of drinks or even methodologies in the way our respective countries are making drinks right now? I see a lot of different schools emerging over here. The hotel bars have there own style, other bars are doing the party drinks for an almost disco crowd. There is a retro scene which mimics old scenes and that style of drinks. Then you have a modern bar which has a progressive mentality towards drinks with experimentation with various styles and genres of drink. I think this stems from various spheres of influence, be that clientele or training. The most overwhelming feature is the energy being expended within the industry in all its branches.
Audrey: I definitely see different styles of drinks and methodology, but, and I am afraid that I am going to completely confuse the issue, I see parallels with all these different levels and styles of drinks in both countries. Let's talk about drinks, and save methodology for the next conversation. Cultural trends dictate drinking trends, and these cultural trends appear to have a strong connection between UK and US, not a surprise considering how close the two countries are with each other. With a few exceptions, both US and UK hotel bars tend to lean toward the classics, but both sides are also adopting modern twists on the classics. I see that One Aldwych is doing a nice job with classicism, yet also doing some very nice modern interpretations - it's good to see a mix of both. The Godfather they produce is fabulous. Drawing from my memory of what a classic Godfather tastes like, I didn't expect it to be so good.
Almost disco drinks and theme bars. Again, this is happening on both sides of the Atlantic, yet also depends on bar locations. Trailer Happiness is a good example of this style in London, doing retro-tiki with great success in Notting Hill, an art-influenced community. Here in the US, we see a lot of that sort of retro escapism executed with a good degree of success in the lower east side, another art-influenced area,
although the financial demographics of the two neighbourhoods are dramatically different.
Clearly, the trends that we are observing are a lot bigger than just what people are drinking. These days, whether they are old-school classics, tiki, or disco, the yearn is for nostalgia. People yearn for nostalgia in uncertain times, and it is evident everywhere in the air around us. The fascinating thing about nostalgia is that it makes people feel more secure - people get to experience something that reminds them of better times, even if they weren't around for them. I believe that cultural trends dictate drinking trends.
After 9/11 here, the economy went down the tubes. Lots of people lost their jobs, and we came into extremely uncertain times. Immediately afterwards, we saw lots of 'comfort food', more 'value meals', and a lot more drinking. These things gave people a more secure perception of the world around them. The retro drinking trends that we are witnessing are merely a further unfolding of that; an extension of a comfort level. Snobby service from restaurants became unacceptable; guests were seeking out a real connection with people in the world around them, which also translated into a desire for a friendlier experience with waitstaff and better service. Service with a smile. Again, the retro is a yearning for better days, and a time when people appeared to be having more fun.
Right now the late 70s and early 80s are trying to make a comeback. The younger kids are looking for retro because they want to somehow experience those insane, disco days when life was just one, big happy party. This pairs with the juicy-juice drinks we now see, which parallel what they were drinking then. Again, a yearning for better days, even though most of them were babies at the time.
The 'modern bar' that you talk about... These fruitcentric cocktails appear to be a conglomeration of everything, old and new. With the uncertainty of the world climate, it's as if all bets are off. Yet if we look a little closer at these new drinks, aren't they really just modern-day interpretations of pre-prohibition drinks? The "Golden Age Of Cocktails, Part Two"? As Dale DeGroff has said in the past: "Everything that is old is new again", and I completely agree. We're seeing everything come across the bar right now, even if we're not using the traditional terminology for it; lots of cobblers, daisies, fixes and fizzes. To top it all off, Jerry Thomas directed us to "garnish with fruits of the season". And we still do.
Tony: What you mean by fruitcentric?
Audrey: Fruitcentric refers to drinks that utilise fresh fruit, juices, fruity flavours or purees in its foundation; where the flavour of the fruit supersedes the importance of the actual spirit. Almost like an alcoholic smoothie where the flavour of the alcohol is nearly masked.
I would definitely call the Applejack Old Fashioned (the Thanksgiving drink with muddled cranberry and orange slices) a 'fruitcentric' drink because there's a lot of fruit in it. The Applejack is part of the performing cast as opposed to taking centre stage. I would also consider a Cosmopolitan to be fruitcentric, but a Manhattan, Negroni or a Sazerac wouldn't be. I don't think I would consider the term for a Margarita. If made properly, the flavour of tequila shines through; the lime and cointreau merely serve to enhance.
Tony: I do think that even though there are drinks that emerge though proportions, methodology or through modern ingredients, many don't fit into the classical classifications. Your cranberry thanksgiving martini would be an example of this.
Audrey: I'm so stubborn. You call it a Martini, and I am not able to call anything aside from Gin or Vodka with Vermouth a martini. The Applejack Cobbler is definitely not a classic, but it was inspired by reading Jerry Thomas and his 'cobbler' style of drinks. I reinterpreted it, and put the fruit into the base instead of on to - Applejack was America's first spirit; it predates Bourbon. I still consider that as a very old-style of drink. But I also think you're right. There are probably new drinks that have evolved that don't fit into old-world classifications. It's just very hard for me to see that though, because in my crazy mind, I'll trace their possible lineage in history, and see the common denominators. The Long Island Iced Tea could be interpreted as a new drink yet in my mind, I can still clearly see its lineage from the Collins or, as Gary Regan refers to them in The Joy Of Mixology as 'Sparkling sours'. The Cosmopolitan? Again, Gary classifies it differently, as a New Orleans Sour - the original being the Brandy Crusta, which predates the Sidecar. Pegu, Margarita, Cosmopolitan, Lemon Drop, and White Lady all fit this bill; a basic sour where the modifier is of an orange flavour, and then the only variances are the base spirit. (and perhaps the addition of another fruit flavour). With these similarities, the world becomes smaller.
Tony: Hmm... the jury is out on that one I think. On to another topic then. As a bartender in New York, have you come across prejudices because of your sex? And are female bartenders a minority in the industry in the city?
Audrey: You can be whatever you want to be in this world, it all depends on how much you really want it. I absolutely love this business. I eat, sleep, and dream about cocktails and spirits, and like you, have a fierce thirst for knowledge and am naturally curious, I love to explore all ideas. When I first started, I took books about spirits and drink recipes everywhere I went, and studied as much as I possibly could. Many nights I would literally fall asleep with a book in my hand.
I wanted to learn as much as possible. I wasn't looking at bartending as a means to find a boyfriend, so I intentionally didn't approach the bar with a sexy attitude. To answer your question, no, I don't ever come across any prejudice now, but I think it's because I've worked so hard to get to this point. When I was first beginning, the occasional sales rep or guest who didn't know me would initially talk to me as if I were ignorant. But after a short conversation, they would see that I knew my stuff, and very quickly thereafter I was treated with respect.
I think that it's extremely important for women in this business to honestly ask themselves the question: "What is the image that I'm currently portraying to the world, and is that the person that I want to continue to be?" If the two are incongruous, and they desire to accomplish more, then they need to work on it. For women, equally important as having technical skills are style of dress - there's a big difference between stylish and slutty - mannerisms, communication skills and language used. And although it's gotten much better, we gals are unfortunately still judged much more critically then men, so we have to work twice as hard at it. Fair? No, but that's just the way it is.
A girl can bitch all she wants about equality, but if she doesn't take the time to hone her skills, to study, to learn and is tending bar half-naked, then those are her conscious choices. That's where the prejudice will come in, and she's the one encouraging it. And you can't blame that on the guys.
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